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Sports Goulash
Odds and ends of Wyoming high school sports.
Reclassification: Proposals, possible conference and classification alignments, and other fun stuff
Posted by: Patrick Schmiedt on September 10, 2008 at 11:32PM EST

Before we get too deep into the possible new conference alignments facing the scrutiny of the Wyoming High School Activities Association this fall, we need to set the ground rules of what's up for vote. The WHSAA's first quarterly meeting, scheduled for Sept. 30-Oct. 1 in Casper, will have great sway in how the conferences and classifications are organized for the 2009-10 and 2010-11 school years.

It's easiest to examine the proposals if we look at football as separate from everything else. And here's how everything else breaks down:

One proposal before the WHSAA is the so-called "natural breaks" proposal, one that would allow the WHSAA to put as many as 14 teams into Class 4A. Using enrollment numbers provided to them earlier this fall, the WHSAA executive staff has already set those "natural breaks" so schools will know where they would go if this proposal passes.

Here are how the conferences would break down IF this proposal passes (for basketball, track and volleyball, and to a certain extent for wrestling):

4A West: Cody, Evanston, Green River, Jackson, Riverton, Rock Springs, Star Valley.
4A East: Gillette, Kelly Walsh, Natrona County, Cheyenne Central, Cheyenne East, Laramie, Sheridan.
3A West: Lander, Lovell, Powell, Worland, Kemmerer, Lyman, Mountain View, Pinedale.
3A East: Buffalo, Glenrock, Newcastle, Thermopolis, Douglas, Rawlins, Torrington, Wheatland.
2A Northwest: Greybull, Riverside, Rocky Mountain, Shoshoni.
2A Northeast: Big Horn, Moorcroft, Sundance, Tongue River, Wright.
2A Southwest: Big Piney, Saratoga, Wind River, Wyoming Indian.
2A Southeast: Burns, Lingle, Lusk, Pine Bluffs, Southeast.
1A Northwest: Burlington, Dubois, Fort Washakie, Meeteetse, St. Stephens, Ten Sleep.
1A Northeast: Arvada-Clearmont, Hulett, Kaycee, Normative Services, Upton.
1A Southwest: Arapaho Charter, Cokeville, Encampment, Farson, Hanna, Snake River.
1A Southeast: Chugwater, Glendo, Guernsey, Midwest, Rock River.

If the proposal DOES NOT pass, and the WHSAA goes back to using its current classification system (12-16-20-rest), here's how the conferences would break down:

4A West: Natrona County, Evanston, Green River, Riverton, Rock Springs, Star Valley.
4A East: Gillette, Kelly Walsh, Cheyenne Central, Cheyenne East, Laramie, Sheridan.
3A West: Cody, Lander, Powell, Worland, Jackson, Lyman, Mountain View, Pinedale.
3A East: Buffalo, Glenrock, Newcastle, Thermopolis, Douglas, Rawlins, Torrington, Wheatland.
2A Northwest: Greybull, Lovell, Riverside, Rocky Mountain, Shoshoni.
2A Northeast: Big Horn, Moorcroft, Sundance, Tongue River, Wright.
2A Southwest: Big Piney, Kemmerer, Saratoga, Wind River, Wyoming Indian.
2A Southeast: Burns, Lingle, Lusk, Pine Bluffs, Southeast.
1A Northwest: Burlington, Dubois, Fort Washakie, Meeteetse, St. Stephens, Ten Sleep.
1A Northeast: Arvada-Clearmont, Hulett, Kaycee, Normative Services, Upton.
1A Southwest: Arapaho Charter, Cokeville, Encampment, Farson, Hanna, Snake River.
1A Southeast: Chugwater, Glendo, Guernsey, Midwest, Rock River.

It's important to note several things at this point. First, conference alignments are still flexible, and there could still be changes in the make-up of the conferences even if the "natural breaks" proposal passes or fails. This is most likely to happen at the 1A level, specifically with Midwest rejoining the Northeast or Arapaho Charter rejoining the 1A Northwest or swapping spots with Fort Washakie in the Southwest.

But it could also happen in Class 4A, especially if the "natural breaks" proposal does not pass. The current Class 4A ADs got together in Casper last week and hammered out the alignment shown above in the example where the "natural breaks" proposal doesn't pass. You'll note that the Casper schools are split -- Natrona in the West, Kelly Walsh in the East -- and that Riverton has moved into the West. As I understand it, the ADs suggested this alignment by a vote of 11-1.

Schools' classifications will be determined by the vote on the "natural breaks" proposal, and classification can't change once it's set except for by special vote by the WHSAA board. But, as I said before, though, conference alignment is still fluid and will continue to be fluid right up until the final vote in November.

And we haven't even touched soccer. In each case, no matter what, soccer will stay at 12 teams in Class 4A, with Natrona, Evanston, Green River, Riverton, Rock Springs and Star Valley in the West and Gillette, Kelly Walsh, Cheyenne Central, Cheyenne East, Laramie and Sheridan in the East.

Now, take a breath....

Whew.

On to football... and another proposal. This one is for the reorganization of the football classifications, the big crux of which is reducing Class 5A to 10 teams and adding a division of six-man football.

Here is how the football conferences would shake out IF the proposal passes:

Class 4A: Gillette, Kelly Walsh, Natrona County, Cheyenne Central, Cheyenne East, Evanston, Green River, Laramie, Rock Springs, Sheridan.
3A West: Cody, Jackson, Lander, Powell, Star Valley, Worland.
3A East: Buffalo, Douglas, Rawlins, Riverton, Torrington, Wheatland.
2A West: Big Piney, Greybull, Kemmerer, Lovell, Lyman, Mountain View, Pinedale, Wyoming Indian.
2A East: Burns, Big Horn, Glenrock, Moorcroft, Newcastle, Thermopolis, Tongue River, Wright.
1A 11-man West: Burlington, Cokeville, Dubois, Riverside, Rocky Mountain, Saratoga, Shoshoni, Wind River.
1A 11-man East: Hulett, Lingle, Lusk, Normative Services, Pine Bluffs, Southeast, Sundance, Upton.
1A six-man: Fort Washakie, Guernsey, Hanna, Kaycee, Snake River, Meeteetse, Midwest, Rock River, Ten Sleep.

You'll note that there are no conferences for 4A or 1A-six-man. In both cases, there will only be one conference, with a round-robin schedule set up for both divisions. Class 4A teams will play each other each once, including a full-on regular season game scheduled for Zero Week, for a nine-game regular season. Each game will be a "conference" game -- there will be no non-conference games -- and the top eight teams from that "conference" will be seeded 1-8 in the playoff bracket.

For six-man, each team will play every other once -- nine teams, making for an eight-game regular season -- and the top four teams will advance to the playoffs.

As for 2A and 1A-11, you'll note that the conferences themselves are much bigger now. Therefore, the conference season will take up the bulk of the schedule -- seven of the eight games for each team will be conference games.

If the proposal DOES NOT pass, here is how the classes/conferences would be made up:

5A East: Gillette, Kelly Walsh, Cheyenne Central, Cheyenne East, Laramie, Sheridan.
5A West: Natrona County, Evanston, Green River, Rock Springs, Star Valley.
4A West: Cody, Jackson, Lander, Powell, Riverton, Worland.
4A East: Buffalo, Douglas, Rawlins, Torrington, Wheatland.
3A West: Big Piney, Kemmerer, Lovell, Lyman, Mountain View, Pinedale.
3A East: Burns, Glenrock, Moorcroft, Newcastle, Thermopolis, Wright.
2A West: Greybull, Riverside, Rocky Mountain, Shoshoni, Wind River, Wyoming Indian.
2A East: Big Horn, Lingle, Lusk, Pine Bluffs, Sundance, Tongue River.
1A West: Burlington, Cokeville, Dubois, Hanna, Saratoga.
1A East: Guernsey, Hulett, Midwest, Normative Services, Southeast, Upton.

Once again, it's important to note in both cases, conference alignment can be fluid but, usually, classification is not. The only hiccup I see here is with Saratoga football, which usually co-ops with Encampment, which might cause them to move up a classification in the second case.

And it's interesting to see here that if the six-man/10 in 4A proposal doesn't pass, Casper's two teams could again be split up, aided by Star Valley's jump into 5A and Riverton's fall to 4A.

It's a lot to process. I'm still trying to do just that.... And now, you have some time to do so, too.

The first of the four district meetings was today; those will continue through next week. Then, on Sept. 30, the WHSAA board will gather in Casper, make some votes and help clear up a lot of the "what-ifs" facing them this month.

Posted by patrick.schmiedt@trib.com

(11) Comments
Posted by: HS Sports Fan on September 11, 2008 12:30AM EST
Makes sense to me. I think they should vote today! It will probably fail since it makes sense.

Posted by: coach247 on September 11, 2008 1:36PM EST
While I don't want Thermopolis to end up in the west and face the conference travel how is it that Lovell would? Maybe we should quit worrying that the conference numbers are even and spend a little more time with "natural" geographics.

Posted by: gtown on September 11, 2008 3:53PM EST
That would be weird not having NC and KW in the same conference.

Posted by: mike on September 11, 2008 8:50PM EST
Seems to me Wyoming has it easier than bordering states in terms of conference and classification issues. There are more teams in class c in MT and class B in SD than all the schools in WY combined. By my count Wy has less than 100 schools in the state regardless of classification. There are more than 100 schools in one class in SD and MT and they travel further and play schools of 3X the enrollment on a regular basis. Maybe the numbers and school issue sheds light on the all-star game results? I realize the WY bb teams have lost to WY more than they have won. However, Sd creates three all star teams and the one that plays WY in hoops is the second or third all-star team epending on scheduling. Just a thought. Not knocking WY athletics, but other states close have more serious issues and alot more schools to deal with!!!

Posted by: Patrick Schmiedt on September 11, 2008 10:36PM EST
Hi mike,

I'll play a little devil's advocate here... I'd argue that it's tougher, not easier, to classify schools in a state where there's only 70 high schools. In South Dakota, Nebraska, Montana, etc., the distances between the larger schools is comparable to Wyoming but at the small-school level the travel is much greater in Wyoming. That's what really makes Wyoming unique when it comes to reclass stuff -- the lack of small schools.

Therefore, you see a lot of Wyoming small schools traveling just as far as the big schools, something you don't see as much of in Montana and South Dakota, where there are 100 schools in the small-school classifications.

Also, arguing that Wyoming's classification issues aren't as "serious" as other states is pretty insulting. Just because Wyoming doesn't have many high schools doesn't mean its issues in regards to classification, conference alignment and travel aren't "serious."

--patrick

Posted by: wyofloater on September 12, 2008 12:56AM EST
I'm just glad to see that travel distance & time away from school are being given more weight now (based on possible new conference alignments). "Balancing" the conferences shouldn't even be in the equation.

Posted by: Mike on September 12, 2008 10:15AM EST
Patrick,

I didn't mean to say WY's classification issues were not serious. What I should have said, and failed to say, is the biggest gripe and complaint many schools in the state seem to have is the enrollment issue. IE "We don't want to play a school that has that many more kids than we do". It's my understanding Riverton is the best example here, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but my argument is that in bordering states, even with more shools, many of these schools play other schools with larger enrollment. Case and Point, class C in MT. You might have a school of 35 playing a school with 150. That is almost 5X the enrollment, albeit on a smaller scale. Has WY ever looked at three classes for all sports other than FB? Class A B and C? More schools, less travel, wouldn't that be a good thing? Then again, it brings back the "Riverton"argument. Someone will always be unhappy. But I would think going to state in class of 30 schools would be sweeter than going out of a classification with 16 or 12. Think about it, more than half the 4a schools go to state in basketball and exactly half go in 3A.

Posted by: Patrick Schmiedt on September 12, 2008 12:17PM EST
Mike, some good points there. Sorry I misinterpreted your first comment.

You are right about the enrollment issues. Some schools are hesitant to play the larger schools within their own classification. Idealistically, you'd think that all 4A schools, or all 3A schools, or whatever, since they're in the same classification then they should be able to play against any other school in the classification and that enrollment differences within a classification wouldn't matter. But realistically, that has proven not to be the case in Wyoming.

The three-class idea has been tossed around, but it's never made any serious headway. Football used to be a three-class setup back in the 1970s but I don't see the state ever switching back to it.

--patrick

Posted by: Wolverine73 on September 12, 2008 7:56PM EST
There will never be a "solution" that makes everyone happy given our vast travel requirements and enrollment issues. But I don't think we can keep applying the percentage bigger equation to all schools big and small.

Football is a game of numbers plain and simply. With the small schools, if you figure 10 players per 100 students, a school of 150 kids should draw 15 players for the team, and that's usually low because by virtue of being a small school there may not be a lot of other things for the kids to occupy their time with. If they play a school two times bigger then they are, that team should have 30 kids out for football, or 15 more ball players to choose from.

When it comes to large schools, and we'll go back to the "Riverton" argument, with 750 kids, they will have 75 kids out, which is about where they are at. To play a school even twice their size, they a facing a team with 150 kids to choose from, or 75 more kids.

This is a simplistic view of the situation, but when everyone plays the same 11 man football a team that has 75 more players to draw from is going to be much tougher to compete against than a team that has only 15 more players to draw from.

So when they are looking at size differences in trying to find a "solution" that is forever going to be illusive; they need to get away from using percentages, because twice the size in small schools does is not the same as twice the size in big schools; in a game of numbers........

Posted by: tmillerwyo on September 12, 2008 9:23PM EST
I agree with Patrick, its tougher to reclassify HSs in WYO than any other bordering state, because WYO has fewer acceptable solutions. 2 reasons: 1st, WYO has a large (the largest) area per HSs ratio (97818/70 = 1397.4 sq. mi.), which increases the average potential travel distance (sqrt(1397.4) = 37.4 mi. - as the bird flies) between 2 neighboring HSs of any classification. 2nd, WYO HS has a large HS size factor (2200/20 = 110). So to solve the 1st problem you need more HSs per classification. So without increasing the population (and opening more HSs), you need lower the # of classifications (which increases the potential HS size factor per classification). For example if you lower the # of classifications to 3, how do you partition them? Give each classification the same number of schools (70/3 = 23.3). Now you place Newcastle in the top classification. If your not from WYO that may sound OK, but not to Newcastle and other WYO HSs a little bigger than them. Or give each classification a maximum-differential-ratio (log3(110) = 4.28 MDR). Now you have 3A w/ 16, 2A w/ 24 & 1A w/ 30, which is a better solution, but I guarantee you there aren’t enough ADs in WYO that will pass a classification proposal with a 4.28 MDR. Now you could pick a MDR and then calculate the # of classifications needed. For example a MDR of 2 would need (trunc(log2(110))) 6 classifications. I didn't even consider other travel factors, such as weather conditions, and land terrain obstacles (eg mountains), because the other bordering states have similar factors, but these factors can also make it more difficult to find a good solution. Also, the math I used only measures the extremes if the locations of HSs are equally distributed throughout the state, and the rate of change of HS size from smallest to largest is constant. If these facts are not 100% true then grouping similar sized HSs in a relatively small area makes sense. This is called “conferences” and should be decided by the individual HS ADs. Then let the state determine a state classification according to an acceptable MDR (and natural breaks), and develop a point system to seat HSs to regional tournaments.

Posted by: wyomathlover on September 18, 2008 12:29PM EST
I think if you presented the AD's in Wyoming with tmillers approch they would vote for anything you put infront of them because they would still be scratching their heads over all the math. lol.

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