There was a Torrington boys team in the mid-90's that scored about 190 points in 3A.

We have a winner... sort of.

Torrington is indeed the team. But can anyone nail any of the bonus questions?

--patrick

Of course, I know this. They were two years after I graduated. (and I did not look this up)

1998 Torrington Trailblazers - 194 points

2nd place was probably Powell, but maybe Worland.

The sick part of it is Torrington nearly scored 200 points, but their second best runner in the 800m who finished 3rd in the race was DQ'd, therefore negating his 6 points. If you're wondering if he would've placed lower had he not been DQ'd, you would be wrong. He just was nailed for a line infraction, as he was right behind 2nd place. Rob Marney, arguably one of the 5 best distance runners the state had seen at the time ( I could give you my top 5 if anyone cares), completed his second triple (800-1600-3200) in a row. If memory serves me correctly, they won 11 of the 17 events, two of which they had no competitors. I could look up the specifics, but that would be cheating. More from me later after Patrick crown's me champ for the day.

oops

*crowns*

The champ has been crowned....

Burke nailed most all of it: Torrington, 1998, 194 points, beat second-place Powell.

The only remaining question is the margin. It was 130 points. Powell had 64 points in second place.

With Burke around, I should have known better than to pick a Torrington track question. :)

Nice job!

--patrick

The '98 THS was the best WYO 3A T&F team ever, but look at the WHSAA archives for the '79 THS, '77 & '80 Central, and '80 Goshen Hole teams (with 16 events and only 5 places scoring 6-4-3-2-1). I know this dates me, but these are some good T&F teams I remember from my HS days.

Burke, Just for the sake of conversation what are your top five?

My simple criteria: Win a lot, and do it for a long time.

Note: Number of times state champ does not include relays

1. Jim McCreery, Gillette - 9x State Champ (2 XC)
Completed the only (I think) Quadruple on the boys side in the top two classes (4-8-16-32) as a senior. Won the latter three events as junior, and was second in those three as a soph to teammate Jason Drake.

Titles:
XC - 2
400 - 1
800 - 2
1600 - 2
3200 - 2

2. Rob Marney, Torrington - 10x State Champ (3 XC)
Won the triple last two years of HS; thoroughly dominanted 3A XC for three years. Was surprise 3rd in XC as freshman.

Titles:
XC - 3
800 - 2
1600 - 2
3200 - 3

3. Jim Williams, Glenrock - 7x State Champ (1 XC)
Jimmy had to compete against traditional 4A powers in XC all through HS, which makes his two 2nd place finishes more impressive. It also makes Glenrock's State XC title in 1985 very impressive; they beat Gillette by 30 pts. Much like what I remember of McCreery, he would punish his body to victory.

Titles:
XC - 1
1600 - 3
3200 - 3

4. Matt Heller, Lander - 10x State Champ (3 XC)
Eerily similar path as Marney. Did not have the complete package of Marney (speed included), but was just as dominating over the longer races. Also, finished 3rd in XC as freshman.


gtown, this is the point where I get in arguments with myself. If you are sickly talented, but in a less competitive classification, you look thoroughly dominate, but the times may not be that impressive. If you placed the back half of the placers of a higher classification in the one below it, they would win. On the other hand, some very good runners have come along at the 'wrong' time, where in most other 3-4 year stretches, they would be awesome but they just happen to be the same age as an all-time great.

Some others to consider for that fifth spot:

Nathan Kennedy, Evanston - ran the same years as McCreery
Ryan Bolton, Gillette - same deal, just his teammate
Joe Wilson, Southeast - won 2 XC titles in 3A competing for Torrington
Mike Wilkey, Green River
Jason Drake, Gillette
Lee Irvine, Lander

Please feel free to share your thoughts.

Very good picks in my opinion anyway. It's a shame McCreery couldnt continue his career at ASU longer than what he did... who knows what he could of done. I also feel bad for Ryan Bolton since in the begginning and middle of the year he would beat McCreery then by the time state rolled around McCreery would just be untouchable.

I have always been a big fan of Bolton, particularly after HS. John Beck of Torrington kind of falls in that Bolton role. He would have won a lot of titles--he did win the 8-16-32 as a senior--but he ran his first three years of HS with Marney.

It should also be considered how good would these "2nd bests" be without their leader counterparts. Bolton, Noecker, Harrison, Reimer, et al would not have been the runners they became without a stud out front like McCreery. Of course, McCreery had Drake to show him the way. It is amazing what can be accomplished when a group of individuals get very focused on a common goal to become a better team.

I completely agree with you. Of course they all want to do their best individually but most of the time the drive behind that is a goal to win as a team. Ex. Dominick Robinson wasn't expected to win the 800 this year but he won it with the drive of a team title on his mind. He would of done anything to win the team title. Just an example.

I have hard time using the number of state championships as a criteria for assessing greatness since the 2nd best runner may have run against the best runner, or one classification may have slower competition than another. I prefer comparing times as a primary criteria, and championships as a secondary criteria. Also a few great distance runners from my era (mid-70's) where Bundy, Bishop, and Charkey (from Cheyenne), and '81 SunRhodes (2A 3200m state record holder). In the last 10 years there have been some other great distance runners from Gillette (Jones, Curry & Burke), and a couple of great 800m runners (Hewitt-Gafney & Strand). This coming year we may see the greatest distance (3200m & XC) runner ever from WYO (Dominick Robinson).

tmiller I agree with you on the times. Alot of runners have ran their fastest times somewhere besides the state meet therefore may not be as well known since people primarily look at state results and state records.

tmiller:

UNFAIR!!! The Camels have too many good distance runners, so I just picked the best I have seen. All others are disqualified from my process.

Okay, just kidding.

Good points. I have had the privilege to watch nearly every great race from many of the best distance runners the state has seen, until about 5 years ago. I wish I could comment on guys before 1984ish, but I cannot.

I think the one point you are missing with my assessment--which I will admit is flawed, because I do not consider myself a guru by any means--is the consistency and longevity by these runners. By doing it early and often, proves their greatness.

I admit I am also have a personal bias towards, being from my hometown. However, if you are wondering about his times, he did run these in HS:

800 - 1:55
1600 - 4:22
3200 - 9:37

He later became one of the best runners in Black Hills State history. He was at his best in XC and in the Steeplechase. Of course, if we start talking post-HS success for mid-d/long-d runners from the Cowboy State, the conversation can stop at Sam Burley and Alicia Craig
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I will say this definitively. Jim McCreery's performance at the 1991 State Meet will always be the most impressive performance I have ever witnessed in Casper. As you know, Casper's winds can get to the point where running fast is just not in the cards. Those three days were some of the worst wind conditions I can remember. I'm not sure what was more amazing--his 800 or his 1600. The interesting thing about the wind, it was in the runners' face on the homestretch. Both races he took out with the intent to crush the field and the record he held, leading the charge and breaking the wind for everyone else. He barely accomplished it in the 800, and fell short in the 1600, but still ran 4:22. I still insist that had conditions been ideal, the 800 record would still be his and the 1600 would be under 4:13.
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gtown:

You may be able to answer this. I have talked it over with many others from Gillette who can remember. Some former Camels argue Jason Drake was probably a better runner than McCreery. Also, they considered Jeremy Skinner the most talented long distance runner to come through the system (assuming you lump Drake, McCreery, and Hewitt-Gaffney as Mid-D). Thoughts?

I meant to say my personal bias is for Marney. Oops!

If you lump them as middle distance mainly talking the 800 then it would be to hard to say which one was better. Hewitt-Gaffney has the state record, but Drake has the school record which is faster. I was not at the 1991 state games so I dont know about the wind but if it's as bad as you say then I would believe McCreery would still have the state record. It's truly amazing that someone can be able to win events as widely ranged from the 400 to the 3200. So in my mind if your looking at most TALENTED, then I would say McCreery. But to say who is better as a middle distance runner would be to hard.

I think that I was the only Wyomingite to witness Jason Drake best high school performance. We were the only two participants from Wyoming in the Keebler Invitational in Chicago in '89. Drake ran an amazing and gutty 800m at 1:51 I think to represent our state well.