Posted by: Burke Binning on February 6, 2008 11:30PM EST Three-Class System (WY has too few schools to have a five- or four-class system) AAA: 1-18 AA: 19-38 A: 39-70

Posted by: Eng on February 7, 2008 12:05AM EST You know? That three class system probably makes more sense than any other proposal I've heard.

Posted by: Burke Binning on February 7, 2008 12:33AM EST On a similar note, but much larger scale, here is the class breakdown in the state of Texas. I coach at a 4A school with roughly 2050 students. 5A: 245 schools - 2085+ enrollment 4A: 243 schools - 980-2084 enrollment 3A: 180 schools - 430-979 enrollment 2A: 225 schools - 200-429 enrollment 1A: 380 basketball/163 11-man FB/129 6-man FB schools - 199 & lower enrollment

Posted by: HS Sports Fan on February 7, 2008 1:42AM EST 4A = 600 + (14 schools) . 3A = 187 - 599 (16 schools) . 2A = 100 - 185 (15 schools) . 1A = < 100 (all remaining schools) (25 schools) . I say do this for all of the major sports. You can still have the option of 6 man football in 1A with the smallest of that class.

Posted by: HS Sports Fan on February 7, 2008 1:52AM EST After further review, I think I am inclined to vote for the 3 class system that Burke presented. In 3A you could have four 4-5 team conferences, in 2A you could have four 5 team conferences, and in 1A you could have four 8 team conferences or eight 4 team districts that feed into 2 regionals that qualify 8 for state. In South Dakota they use to divide the state in to 8 regions and in each region there was roughly 4 districts. One team from a district qualified for the regional tournament, and the regional winner qualified for state. Probably very similar to what Brady was discribing from North Dakota. I know Wyoming isn't South or North Dakota, but we can certainly learn from what they are doing.

Posted by: rangerfan on February 7, 2008 10:16AM EST I tried to look at the numbers and come up with 4 classes. A lot of scribbling and himming and hawing. I ended up with very few teams in the top two and a lot in the bottom. (1-14, 15-24, 25-44, 45-70) The fact is that wyoming does not have the number of schools to divide it "fairly" and keep good competition to make winning state a great accomplishment (unless done by the smallest school in the class). Unlike the texas example where a school has to emerge from 200 others or so. We have to beat 9 or 10 others. I like the 3 class system because it adds to the prestige of a state championship or even a regional champion. From the example above you would have to outperform nearly 20 teams which is about as good as we could hope for here in the cowboy state. I realize there are small teams still at a disadvantage and I am coming from one of those schools if this were to pass, but winning a title (it would happen periodically for the smaller schools) would be that much sweeter and give the "hoosiers" feel good story. I like the 3 class idea.

Posted by: fishmaster on February 7, 2008 10:19AM EST You know it would never happen, but wouldn't it be interesting if the top 5 schools were split into 2 each? Then we'd have 75 schools. 4A - Top 14 = 1286 - 892 3A - Next 16 = 752 - 222 2A - Next 20 = 212 - 104 1A - Next 25 = 96 - ??? Never actually happen, but just a random thought. In real life....we already have too few of schools to add another class. I have typically been part of the smaller end of each classification, and someone is always the little guy. That is just how it goes. I think they are fine right now, but there might need to be some tweaking done on the regions instead.

Posted by: Scott on February 7, 2008 10:46AM EST I think we should keep the current system but redo the conferences to cut down on travel in the 4a division. My thoughts and prayers go out the Dana family in Star Valley.

Posted by: roundballhead on February 7, 2008 11:05AM EST I like the 3 Class idea and fishmasters. But the current proposal is just plain DUMB!!! I can not imagine that the 4A schools are chomping at the bit to get to play such power house 3A schools like Cody and Jackson. Yes the Jackson Girls Basketball and Boys Football teams had good years but I think even folks in Jackson would say that that is rare. One only needs to look to how well Cody did last year as a 4A school and how well Star Valley is doing this year to see how well putting schools of 700 or less verse schools of 1500 or more works. I agree that travel in the state is hard with some of the current alignments but I think we would all regret what would happen to sports involvment under the new proposal for the smaller 4A schools. Kids don't want to go out for sports if thier going to have their butts handed to them every night. Did any body see the Boys Cody/Jackson score 25-28 final. Thats right 25 to 28 in a Varsity Boys game. How long are these programs going to survive in 4A if they can't score 60 points between the two of them in 3A? I hope wiser heads will prevail at the districts it seems that the WHSAA's thought for schools like SV, Jackson and Cody got lost in snow storm over the Pass. COME ON PEOPLE WISE UP!!!

Posted by: rangerfan on February 7, 2008 12:12PM EST Roundballhead, I agree with you, but is it better to be 700-800 competing with 1500 or like it is currently in volleyball and basketball, 200 competing with 700-800. Like I said earlier we don't have the number of schools in wyoming to have a completely "fair" system. I think kids will come out because they can still compete, just like they do now in the current 3A system. You may not win state every year but you can still compete and enjoy the game for what it is.

Posted by: wy sports fan on February 7, 2008 12:13PM EST I agree 100% with roundball head commit, Jackson has not been a dominant force in 3A, they one for the first time in 20 years in football and last year they won girls basketball for 1st time in almost 20 years. As Star Valley can tell you they have no chance of competing in 4A and they were a dominant force at 3A. I believe the whole idea behind the proposal of 5 classes was to make it so the top and bottom schools on each class were closer in enrollment numbers, this new proposal completely contradicts this idea. The problem is that when this goes to a vote everyone will vote yes other then Jackson and Cody since it benefits all these schools. Of course all the 3A schools will vote for it because it eliminates the bigger schools. All the 4A schools will vote for it because the want 14 teams so they can have two equal conferences with 7 teams in each conference, however all that would happen is that the big 6 (Casper schools, Cheyenne schools, Gillette) would be in one conference and the other conference would be 7 smaller schools (jax, Star Valley Green River , Rock Springs, Evanston, Riverton). It appears to me that it is much easier for schools of smaller enrollment numbers to compete in 3a then 4a. This years 3A boys basketball proves this with many of the smaller schools be ranked very high and being able to challenge the bigger schools. What the smaller schools must realize is that Jackson is almost at a disadvantage because they offer mnay more sports then most of the 3a schools. I would lay a bet that the Jax boys baksteball program as partciaption numbers that equal many 2a schools. Jax did not have enough kids to even cut this year and don’t even have ONE junior on the roster. I would hope before this is voted on everyone will take into account that even though Jax might have one a few state championships lately, they are not a dominant force at 3A and would have not chance of challenging the bigger schools in 4a. Ask Todd Dixion the new Star Valley boys coach how fun it is to be 2-14 and have to look forward to this for future seasons. I don't even think Star Valley belongs in 4A get a grip and wake up people this is a bad idea and a bad proposal.

Posted by: 167wrestler on February 7, 2008 1:02PM EST In a perfect world nobody would have to compete with a school more than twice your size. But we live in Wyoming not Texas (what an accomplishment it would be to win a state title there!!) Of course we all want little Johnny to be a "State Champion" and that should be the goal. You dont compete to win the silver. But the true reward in striving for a championship is not the gold medal when or if you get there but the friendships and lessons learned along the way. If you compete in the true spirt of competition and sportsmanship never taking your eye off the end goal then you will be a true champion. There is a lot of truth to the old adage of "Its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog!!" I do worry about the smaller schools in the classifications getting discouraged and not believing that they can compete because unless you believe you have already lost! My advice would be to face reality, Believe and Achieve. SV Fan.

Posted by: wyofloater on February 7, 2008 1:30PM EST Another problem with 3 classes and the current proposal: having smaller schools getting continually crushed by larger schools is only going to decrease the participation rates and make the problem worse. Then we'll be going through this process again all too soon.

Posted by: Jeff Parrott on February 7, 2008 1:45PM EST One thing to also consider is that Jackson and Cody offer almost every sport. Smaller schools do not. Athletes are shared across several sports whereas in smaller schools sports are not generally competing for the same kids. A school of 700 offering all sports can not compete with a school of 2000 doing the same. I agree with an earlier comment, big schools will want this for a few easy wins and the schools below the cut off will vote for it as well to become the largest schools in the classification. It makes more sense to me that the largest classification has fewer schools, not more. I think if you look inside the numbers, most would agree Jackson, Cody and even Star Valley don't have the numbers to compete with the current numbers of sports that they offer.

Posted by: Hitman on February 7, 2008 2:38PM EST URL: http://yahoo.com for those of you crying about jackson or starvalley not being abel to compete...I don't hear Eddie Clark complaining about his wrestlers moving up...If you got a good program they can compete might not win state very year but they cna compete.....

Posted by: wy sports fan on February 7, 2008 3:24PM EST I agree that Star Valley wrestling is very good and should be commended on their efforts. Star Valley wresting in my opinion is an exception like Cody Hanson’s downhill ski program from Jackson they do not represent the norm. I think Jeff Parrot has brought up the most valid reason why Jackson can not compete with the bigger schools. I believe Jackson in the winter offers more extra curricular activities then most towns in Wyoming. Activities offered in the winter included( basketball, wrestling , high school downhill skiing, intermountain downhill skiing, Nordic skiing, hockey, intermountain snowboarding) and not to mention a prestigious mountain resort that entices some great athletes to be ski bums. 2 amazing Jackson athletes that never competed in high school sports would include Travis Rice, who is currently one top snowboarders in the world, and Resi Steigler who was in the last Olympics as downhill skier. To my knowledge Star Valley offers 2 high school sports in the winter, basketball and wrestling. I had nothing against star valley and its sports teams which have been very successful for many years. However, I believe it is unfair to evaluate this problem by discussing the exception (Star Valley wrestling and Jackson Downhill skiing) and not the norm.

Posted by: Go WYO on February 7, 2008 3:28PM EST Not a great idea by the WHSAA. What exactly do they get out of this?? Are they really trying to fix the system or just 'please' those who have some political power. The enrollment difference between the top 4A school (I'm guessing Gillette) to the bottom 4A school (either Cody or Jackson) in the WHSAA's new proposal is 1,425 students. The difference between the 3A's top and bottom would be 351. That is a huge difference considering schools like Jackson offer nearly every sport, plus lose kids to hockey and intermountain ski teams. Is that really fair?? What kind of messages is this to the athletes at those schools???

Posted by: Jeff Parrott on February 7, 2008 3:54PM EST Dear Hitman, As you can see I put my name on my comments. Not sure why you are not willing to.I also challenge you to label my perspective as "crying". This blog is a great forum to come up with ideas and solutions for our kids and activities. I find it interesting that all you saw was "crying" and didn't address, positive or negative the suggestions I made. Let's hear your constructive ideas...Hitman

Posted by: Sandman on February 7, 2008 6:26PM EST Right now I think Fremont county has two 2A teams that could beat or compete with any 4A team in the state. The problem is Football. There small teams throttling bigger schools not because of the size of school but because the bigger schools have more to offer their kids. Smaller schools do not have swimming, Xcountry, and golf. I think if your going to take in the account for size of school you should take in account for the amount of athletic programs they offer.

Posted by: gtown on February 7, 2008 7:15PM EST you honestly think a 2a team could beat ANY 4a team in the state? maybe two or three but not more

Posted by: roundballhead on February 7, 2008 9:48PM EST EXCELLENT POINT SANDMAN!!! While I do not share your prognostication for 2A schools "throttling" 4A schools, You make an excellent point about taking into account the number of offerings that a school provides. If I am to understand Jeff Parrott (the former AD @ Jackson?) a school like Jackson would has around 32+ sports to offer students. If the top 4 schools have the same number of sports then you look at the math like this: Jackson has 20 kids for every sport while the top four schools who have 60+ per sport. Why is the WHSAA looking at adding 2 more schools? Lets be honest if the top largest schools were strongly encouraged to break into more reasonable size schools you could easily add 2-4 larger sized schools making 4A more competitive lessening travel concerns and saving sports programs in SV Jackson and Cody and the like.

Posted by: HS Sports Fan on February 7, 2008 11:33PM EST It isn't the job of the WHSAA to determine how many activities a high school should offer. That is a local decision. When a school decides to offer additional activities, they must consider where they will get the participants from, and how it will impact the other activities. The WHSAA also can't dictate what activities are available in a community that might pull students athletes away from WHSAA endorsed offerings.

Posted by: HS Sports Fan on February 7, 2008 11:35PM EST Gillette isn't the largest high school in the state. Or they were at the last count. They may be in a month or two. I believe Cheyenne Central is actually the largest high school in the state.

Posted by: bandman on February 8, 2008 7:51AM EST Just a thought. I understand what people are saying about the relationship between the amount of sports being offered at a Jackson or Cody given their school populations vs the same breakdown at the largest schools in the state. However, dont you think it is the same situation that the smaller 3A schools face that offer nearly the same sports as Jackson and Cody but with half as many students? I also dont think it is right to make the decision based on how successful schools like Jackson, Star Valley, or Cody have been in either 3A or 4A because the decision should be made with facts, not a teams ability to succeed. If we started letting that filter in to the process we would have to look at teams like Cokeville and and say "they should have to play 3A because they compete so well". It should be determined by size only.

Posted by: roundballhead on February 8, 2008 9:06AM EST Well taken bandman and HS Sportsfan. I see you point. I think my biggest question keeps going back to two things: 1) Can these three schools be competitive (not winning state but at least being able to compete) with say Gillette, Central, East etc. and if not what does that mean for student interest in sports at those schools? 2) Why is the WHSAA so interested in bringing schools up when they could just as easily press the top 4 schools to split making 4A more competitive. (Ex: if #4 on the list were two schools each would have a population of 908 which is still 255 more than #14 at 653.) Seems like schools of 1039-908 (#1-#4) would be able to field more competitive teams than schools of between 740-653 (#12-#14).

Posted by: Burke Binning on February 8, 2008 9:49AM EST Because the argument seems to be the competitive advantage larger schools have over smaller schools in the same class, I took a look at the 4A state champions (5A in FB) in the 7 primary sports--football, volleyball, girls/boys basketball, wrestling, and girls/boys track--for the school years 2000-01 through 2006-07. That is 49 possible state champions. Total State Titles Gillette = 23 Central = 6 Natrona = 5 Kelly Walsh = 4 East/Green River = 3 Sheridan/Rock Springs = 2 Evanston = 1 Viewing the results, Gillette clearly has a competitive advantage over everybody, so let's just put them in their own class, so everybody else can feel good about themselves. And you cannot just force a school to split up, especially because of athletics. If the buildings can hold the student population safely or they are willing to build newer and bigger schools to accommodate the growing enrollment, so be it. Cheyenne is splitting to three high schools, and Casper appears to be headed that way, but I understand Gillette has no intention of doing so, and that is their communities decision, not the WHSAA. Obviously, the bigger schools are going to win the bulk of the titles. In my example above, the BIG 5 Wyoming HS's have won 41 of 49 championships. The other schools just have to strike it when they get the right talent situation. Laramie used to destroy everyone in football in the 90's, but haven't won anything for awhile. Sheridan was very similar. The big schools will have there lulls in competitiveness, as well. They just won't last as long.

Posted by: lance robinson on February 8, 2008 10:35AM EST If we are going to a new 14 team 4A classification, fine lets go with it and realign new East and West conferences based on travel time. It must be a compliment to the smaller schools in 4A to believe they are on the same playing field when it takes Jackson, Cody, and Star Valley's combined enrollment to equal either one of the Cheyenne's school's or Gillette's ADM figures. That puts Rock Springs, Evanston, Green River, Riverton, Cody, Star Valley and Jackson in the West, and the rest in the east. Do you think that is going to happen ? I can guarantee you Ron Laird is not going to be going to be quoted in this paper as saying " The ones at the top (of each classification) aren't going to like it,". Quit trying to make a pig pretty and base it on enrollment.

Posted by: Wolverine73 on February 8, 2008 11:55AM EST Because of the uniqueness of Wyoming, classification will always be an issue and there may not be a solution. Unfortunately it is a huge issue to those "split" schools; the schools that can either be one of the largest schools of a lower class or one of the smallest schools of the next class up. And trust me, some of the concerns noted above are real concerns. Riverton has been one of those "split" schools for years and the affects of classification are real, particularly in football. In the 1990's, when we were one of the larger schools in 4A football we had great success and our numbers out were consistently in the 110-120 range. After being moved up to 5A our previous success carried us for a number of years and we were competitive at that level. But, over time, trying to compete at this level has taken its toll. This year, our football program started with just over 80 kids (9-12) and ended the season at around 70 kids. Our basketball program is having to play freshmand and sophomores up to maintain minimal numbers for basketball, and our wrestling program can put a varsity team and 4 JV's on the mat. We have also experienced similar trends in track with just a handful of kids out. As pointed out by roundballhead, classification DOES have an impact on numbers. In a classification where you need all the numbers you can get to compete, numbers fall. And is has everything to do with being competitive. Kids are not participating in sports here because they don't want to go through all the work just to get beat all season; and the ones that are going out, in a lot of cases, do so with the attitude that they don't think they can win. We've seen both ends of competition here winning begets winning and losing begets losing. Maybe the solution is to set up sub classes (conferences) within each classification. For instance group the top 16 schools (3A) into 4 conferences (the 4 biggest, next 4 biggest, etc) with each conference champion being seeded into a 3A state playoff system. While the smaller schools would typically not challenge of a state title, they could at least have success within their conference.

Posted by: 167 wrestler on February 8, 2008 1:20PM EST I really really like Wolverine73 idea of trying to get the smaller schools in 1 conference and the larger schools in another. In 4A it only makes sense geographicaly anyway. East conference (Larger Schools) would be Gillette, Natrona, Kelly Walsh, East, Central, Laramie and Sheridan. West conference (Smaller Schools) would be Riverton, Cody, Jackson, Star Valley, Evanston, Green River and Rock Springs. The teams in each conference would be playing on a more even playing field, it would help the kids "believe" that they could compete, participation numbers would come up in the smaller schools and it would give the smaller schools a better chance of competing in the state tournaments. It would also set up some real David and Goliath games at state and if the kids from the smaller schools have learned how to win and believe in themselves. I would expect to see a few upsets along the way. Yes I have heard the argument that if it where done this way then the "best" 8 teams may not make it to state (I believe that is why the 4A conferences were changed even after a similar conference proposal had already been voted on and accepted) but so what. The larger schools already have the advantage, if they do not finish in the top 4 of there conference then it should be there turn to stay home. Mr. Laird if your reading this please give it some consideration. Thank You One of the little guys

Posted by: HS fan on February 8, 2008 5:43PM EST Gillette is smaller than both caspers and cheyennes

Posted by: Patrick Schmiedt on February 8, 2008 7:09PM EST The discussion here has been fantastic. Thanks, everyone. Here are the schools, named. Does this change your opinion at all? 1. 2078 -- Gillette 2. 2018 -- East 3. 1945 -- Central 4. 1817 -- Natrona County 5. 1672 -- Kelly Walsh 6. 1286 -- Rock Springs 7. 1022 -- Laramie 8. 941 -- Sheridan 9. 892 -- Evanston 10. 752 -- Green River 11. 746 -- Riverton 12. 740 -- Star Valley 13. 662 -- Cody 14. 653 -- Jackson 15. 538 -- Lander 16. 500 -- Douglas 17. 489 -- Powell 18. 470 -- Rawlins 19. 388 -- Worland 20. 376 -- Torrington 21. 349 -- Buffalo 22. 300 -- Wheatland 23. 274 -- Pinedale 24. 251 -- Newcastle 25. 222 -- Glenrock 26. 212 -- Lyman 27. 203 -- Mountain View 28. 199 -- Thermopolis 29. 187 -- Kemmerer 30. 187 -- Lovell 31. 184 -- Burns 32. 175 -- Moorcroft 33. 174 -- Big Piney 34. 166 -- Wright 35. 150 -- Greybull 36. 147 -- Big Horn 37. 146 -- Tongue River 38. 133 -- Wyoming Indian 39. 117 -- Pine Bluffs 40. 115 -- Sundance 41. 113 -- Rocky Mountain 42. 107 -- Wind River 43. 106 -- Lusk 44. 106 -- Riverside 45. 104 -- Shoshoni 46. 96 -- Lingle 47. 96 -- Southeast 48. 90 -- Normative Services 49. 88 -- Arapaho Charter 50. 87 -- Saratoga 51. 85 -- Guernsey 52. 79 -- Burlington 53. 75 -- Dubois 54. 75 -- Hanna 55. 74 -- Upton 56. 70 -- St. Stephens 57. 69 -- Midwest 58. 69 -- Ft. Washakie Charter 59. 66 -- Snake River 60. 63 -- Hulett 61. 58 -- Cokeville 62. 52 -- Kaycee 63. 49 -- Farson 64. 38 -- Encampment 65. 34 -- Meeteetse 66. 31 -- Arvada-Clearmont 67. 26 -- Ten Sleep 68. 26 -- Chugwater 69. 25 -- Rock River 70. 25 -- Glendo -- patrick

Posted by: Kevin Williams on February 8, 2008 9:56PM EST Interesting numbers and enrollment figures. It is a tough problem, but as I have stated in other comments, somebody is going to be the biggest and somebody else is going to be the smallest in each classification. I also see that the proposal for 3A, 4A, and 5A schools to add a football game to their schedule was defeated. It seems that the board is willing to let other sports, especially basketball add games (i.e. early season tournaments) at will, but getting extra contests in football is like pulling teeth. Right now, football players from Wyoming play less games than any state in the country, with the possible exception of Alaska. In fact, over the course of 4 years, a football player from another state can play the equivalent of one full season more than a player from Wyoming. In the dark ages of the late '60's and early '70's, we played a 10 game regular season. Somewhere along the line, football lost 2-3 contests per season. I don't really see a reason that football can't overlap into winter sports a week, as basketball overlaps by a week into spring sports seasons. Or, heaven forbid, start the winter sports seasons a week later, or is that against the covenants? Maybe on the next go round. After all, it took a while to add a week zero game/scrimmage. Glaciers move slowly, after all.

Posted by: gtown on February 9, 2008 1:01PM EST Patrick, are those numbers including grades 9-12 or 10-12?

Posted by: D.E. on February 9, 2008 1:12PM EST I dont think there is any one answer to this whole classification problem. You can't make everybody happy, if you could the problem would be fixed. The thing is, is that the problem isn't that bad. You have to draw a line at for each class, and if that means that a smaller school has to compete at a higher level then so be it. Looking at the numbers, there are always going to be schools that are right on the line. Upton, untill recently, has jumped around from 2A to 1A numerous times. I'd like to say it was hard on the students, but they still competed at each level. They had the athletes that wanted to win, and they did. They won state track in 1A one year, then 2A the next. Made it to state football in 2A one year, then won 1A the next. I assume this is quite similare to some border classification schools. Each school that is smaller in its classification is going to have it's up and down years, and almost every school in 1A and 2A will have its up and down years(with the exception of Cokeville, who performs at a high level every year). With new sports during football and track, its hard to field good teams year in and year out. I really just think it depends on the kids who go out. The thing about Wyoming is that any team in their classification has a chance to win state. Small or big. Wyoming is not a state where you are excited to make it to the playoffs, your excited to make to the finals or state. It's small enough where state can be a goal for everyteam, and its not out of reach. Sure your going to have down years, but you take what you get, and put your best product on the playing field.

Posted by: Wolverine73 on February 9, 2008 1:16PM EST Okay, with names attached, lets look at the sub classes within a class idea; and I have not went beyond 3A - 4A or whatever they are going to call it. So, you take the top 15 teams. "Gold" conference would include Gillette, both Casper, both Cheyenne; Silver conference would include RS, GR, Evanston, Laramie, Sheridan, and Bronze conference would be Riv, Land, SV, Jackson, Cody, Douglas. These conferences keep the enrollment numbers from biggest to smallest within 550, it keeps several long time rivalries in place, and other than the Laramie, Sheridan, Evanston match ups; travel seems reasonable. Set the new 3A playoff system up like the NFL. To sell this to the big schools, we can make a pretty safe assumption that the top two in that conference should be in the state tournament and give them two playoff spots. You through in the other two conference champions, and another wild card (based upon its 3A record, not conference record); and then seed a 6 team state tournament with the top two seeds getting a bye. The little schools within the conference have the chance to be competitive year in year out within their conference, and the state tournament should include the top 6 teams in the Class most if not all years. Just a thought, but at some point the WHSAA has to think outside the box.

Posted by: scott on February 9, 2008 3:19PM EST I think your idea has a lot of merit Wolverine73! I did my thesis on extra curricular activity involvement, winning and success in college and for smaller school to have success means a lot. Great idea.

Posted by: Patrick Schmiedt on February 9, 2008 7:41PM EST gtown, those numbers are projected enrollment 9-12 for the 2009-10 and 2010-11 school years. Sorry I did not make that clearer. Thanks. --patrick

Posted by: Jeff Parrott on February 9, 2008 11:07PM EST Some great discussion ! Would some of you comment on: 1. What would an 8 team top grouping look like ? (Remember the days when we used to play home and home series each year ?..that would give these teams 14 potential games right there with the rest to be filled by those schools wanting to play up or out of state foes.) 2. What is behind the big push for going to 14 teams?(Please tell it's not so we can have 2 regions of 7 teams each.) 3. With the numbers supplied, it looks like the smaller schools are filling spots so that the large schools have opponents to play in there same classification regardless of their ability to play at culminating events...anyone agree ? Having two daughters who had the good fortune to be on State Championship teams, I would hope we give all kids the opportunity for this experience. 4. Anyone had the opportunity to see Kristen Shiffler(sorry spelling) play from Lovell ? Might be the best I've seen in Girl's Basketball for a several years....at least at 3A. Will be fun to watch at UW!

Posted by: C_J on February 10, 2008 12:38AM EST Jeff - is the point of HS athletics to give each kid the opportunity to play on a championship team? Being a part of a team effort is what I think it is about. Playing on a Championship team isn't the only measure of success. I have a son that played on a football team in wyoming that won one football game throughout his high school career(actually that win was later reversed due to an ineligible play). We chose to measure success by the amount of heart the team played with each Friday night. They were undefeated in my eyes! Oh by the way, I hate to lose as much as the next guy, but I realize now how much character he developed.

Posted by: HS Fan on February 10, 2008 12:50AM EST Here is an idea for reclassification - Since we are talking about feel good stuff here is an idea! Let's have the winner of each classification bumped up the next year to a higher classification. Champion of 1A becomes a 2A, champ of 2A becomes 3A, etc. also the last place team in a class goes down. 4A to 3A, 3A to 2A, 2A to 1A and 1A to Junior high........

Posted by: JYD on February 10, 2008 5:38PM EST The major problem in the state of Wyoming for the reclass committee in my opinion is that there are not enough schools and the ones we have are so spread out. With the exception of the Big Horn basin its a ways for anyone to travel to play a game. As has been discussed on another blog here is winter travel. When you have to travel like some of the school do it is hard to find games. The new proposals for both football and other sports solve some problems but create others. Getting everyone to agree on a new system is also quite a process. Good luck to that committee, they have a lot of work cut out for them. They need support not constant bashing.

Posted by: Wolverine73 on February 11, 2008 2:36PM EST I don't think anyone is advocating that we need to split into enough conferences that everyone has a chance to win something or that we have to give every kid a chance to be on a championship team. For the smallest schools in each class; they know that once every 10 years or so, the universe will align and they will have a group of athletes that can challenge for a state title. The problem is the decade in between those teams and giving the kids an opportunity to be "successful" and, by that, I don't mean a winning record; just an opportunity to be competitive. I know that athletics are a great arena for teaching kids how to deal with success and failure, but a steady diet of either adversely affects both the kids, and the fans. HS Fan; I did give some thought to your idea; and it used to work pretty well for Mens Fastpitch because teams generally stayed the same. However, I wouldn't want to be a returning ballplayer on a Senior loaded championship team, from Worland, that just got bumped up to 5A.

Posted by: HS Fan on February 11, 2008 7:01PM EST Wolverine73 - Point well taken! I got caught in a moment of sarcasm.

Posted by: Handman on February 13, 2008 2:48PM EST URL: http://my.trib.com/post/patrickschmiedt/blog/classify_these_schools.html#comments Sandman, about you saying Wind River and Wyoming Indian (2A schools) competing with 4A schools, how about a little tournament. Natrona vs. Wind River and Gillette vs. Wyoming Indian. Do you honestly believe those would be good games???

Posted by: Xcskier on February 13, 2008 3:04PM EST Go watch Wind River play, it'd be a better game than you think. that team is deceptively quick and they have a lot of heart. They dismantled riverton at the shootout

Posted by: gtown on February 13, 2008 7:17PM EST im sure Wind River is a great 2a team, not taking anything away from them. but they simply couldnt compete in 4a.

Posted by: Xcskier on February 13, 2008 8:55PM EST I'm not saying that they could compete in a full season of 4a, but for a couple of games, they definitely can compete. Those kids play well together and play with a ton of fire. They make their free throws and don't take stupid shots, that is a fundamentally sound basketball team out there in pavillion. Any 4a team would be foolish to write them off as an easy win.

Posted by: Jimmy Walker on February 16, 2008 12:19AM EST Mr.Parrott, didn't know that i was going to hit a sore spot, ok what your telling me is this if jackson didn't offer as many sports that they do,than they would be competitive because more kids would go out for BB or wrestling.. and because of offering more sports you should stay down a classification.So a school like lyman which offers,FB,VB,CC,golf,swimming because of their size and the number of sports offered they should be 1A??? James(Hitman)Walker